Thanks to David Virtue for the following Q&A with Dr Jim Packer at the Anglican District of Virginia (ADV) ( a division of CANA's) second annual Synod Council at the Church of the Epiphany in Herndon, 29th September 2008.
Question: What hope do you have in a Covenant as a solution to holding the Anglican Communion together?
Packer: I don't think it can be the solution as the matter is being handled from Canterbury, because the Covenant is being handled to include and provide for the heretics in the church and de facto what is coming out of the hopper is being drafted to keep everyone inside who are also outside of historic diocesan structures.
The liberals are maintaining positions not tolerable and need to be explicitly excluded in any future working basis. I am not thrilled at the process going on. From Rowan Williams' standpoint nothing else needs to be done. His position sympathizes with the heretics and he doesn't want appear to be dragging his feet. He doesn't want to see Anglicanism restructured or redefined so as to leave those people out. He encourages the covenant process, at the same time the covenant will be exclusive of some.
(Historically) what happened in the 19th century is that bishops and the archbishops of Canterbury began a pattern of tolerance with a standard of tolerance that became (over time) a virulent liberalism because of the teaching of (German-American) theologian Paul Tillich. Episcopal leadership has been ruined from that day to this.
This has been going on in TEC and CofE for the last half century and is something like suicide. It is a process of ensuring that the life is drained out of the church and the leaders do this by encouraging various forms of liberalism. This does not communicate life and it doesn't build up congregations, it only weakens and shrinks them.
Question: Are you in favor of a new Anglican province in North America?
Packer: Yes, I am and I hope that the movement that is underway is a non-geographic one both for the U.S. and Canada. I believe it is going to succeed. We must make it succeed. I hope it would be recognized by the Archbishop of Canterbury. It will certainly be recognized by the majority of primates of the Anglican Communion.
(CANA missionary Bishop Martyn Minns said he hopes the Communion will recognize it. He said it would function like a province and work coherently and be recognized by GAFCON groups. Asked about a time line, Minns said a proposal would be submitted to the GAFCON Primates Council by the end of this year. It will be a short time line. By early next year recognition will come, he said.)
Question: What is your opinion of the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury? Do you have any regrets calling for the resignation of Rowan Williams?
Packer: The Archbishop of Canterbury is an honest man and by being honest he has positioned himself over a barrel, and as long as he is the ABC he will be over the barrel. Is it comfortable? No. Is it helpful for the world Anglican fellowship? Again, no.
Yes, he has admitted before becoming ABC that he said and did things, which sanctioned gay unions. When he become ABC, he said as far as the gospel is concerned, he was going to fulfill the role of the champion of Anglican order and the Lambeth Conference.
The '98 conference declared itself categorically against homosexual unions and homosexual activity and anonymous marriage and the ABC said he must and will uphold the standard. But his moral credibility is shot. The gay way is ruinous in all sorts of ways. Anglicans have rightly to be concerned about this.
Personally he is not in a position to being himself or to encourage or bring discipline on bishops with such a point of view that he embraces himself. So he is over a barrel. It seems to me the best way out that the Holy Scripture recommends as wisdom is that following this Lambeth, he should be finished as archbishop and move back into the academic world. He is a fine scholar. There are many institutions that would be glad to have him on their faculties.
Question (from VOL): Do you see GAFCON as a possible alternative Anglican Communion?
Packer: Speaking very cautiously, the answer is yes. One possibility will be that the orthodox Anglican communities will be organized in a fellowship which has GAFCON roots and has as its center the leadership of the Primates.
The churches of the old West are unable to enter that circle. We cannot walk together with heretics. These folk in the northern western world are heretics. What that means for the Church of England and provinces deeply infected with a lesser form of liberalism and what that means for the churches of North America is beyond me to guess. There is a sorting out going on and we shall all come out of the hopper better.
Question: What is your assessment of the Charismatic Movement?
Packer: I have assessed the Charismatic Movement and taking and looking at it piece by piece, the Charismatics really believe in exuberant praise. Praising the Lord is a central aspect of worship. It is a delightful activity, a powerful activity and the effect is charismatic. Am I cool to the charismatic movement? Oh no, I am not cool to the Charismatic Movement. I am very grateful for it, because it brought praise and giving glory to God. It is a group, corporate and needed in our personal lives. We need the Charismatic Movement to come and show us that.
Asked by VOL if this was a paradigm shift in his thinking from his Reformed theology, Packer said no. "This is not a paradigm shift. We (evangelicals) are not in the habit of giving glory to God. Charismatics help us emphasize the glory of God.
Question: Do you have any words of encouragement for the Diocese of Pittsburgh?
Packer: I have three words, VOTE FOR IT. Pittsburgh will be No. 3 diocese to leave The Episcopal Church. I hope they do come under Archbishop of the Southern Cone into a world of sunshine and peace.
Question: Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori says there are no goats, all are saved. Do you believe that?
Packer: Bishops should be guided by the teaching of the Bible. The Bible standard is that the human condition is lost and that we are without Christ. The Bible recognizes that there are those who are not saved. All of that determines our view. Faith in Christ is the path of salvation and without faith in Christ we are not in position to say anyone is saved.
